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Archive 2017 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2

  
 
kimknapp
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2


Jimmy,
I agree 100% about your comments re: serious Sony APS-C body. Since they are focusing on Pros more, I am hoping they will come out with an "A6", i.e., all the controls of the A7 (or, better yet, A9, including the new battery), but with an updated APS-C sensor. From my experimenting, I found that I usually got better results birding with the A7Rii and cropping it after the fact, then I did with the A6300, so some sensor improvements would be nice.

RE: Sigma S 150-600. It is in Florida and I won't be able to do any further testing with it until mid-December. I left it there, figuring i would use it more there than here, since there are a couple of wildlife areas there that have lots of birds and can be accessed via car. I missed having it here (CO) this week, though.
For MFT, Metabones makes a couple different adapters. You want the regular (not Speed) adapter, I think they call it Smart Adapter. It does a pretty good job of communicating between camera and body. I don't remember how well it does with AF, but I see that I did comment that it focused quickly. I'll do more testing for AF this winter.

It is BIG and HEAVY, so you will need to use a tripod. Before the Sigma I had a Tamron. I took it on my kayak once, attached to the A6300, and will never do it again. And, the Sigma is bigger and heavier. It is possible to handhold and carry using a Black Rapid strap, but...
On the other hand, the Olympus 300 Pro with MC14 gives you about 840mm FF equivalent and the Panasonic 100-400 gives you 800mm FF equivalent, and both do a stellar job for birds.

Kim



Nov 15, 2017 at 10:28 AM
pmeheut
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2


Hi,
I have the Sigma 150-600 and I carry it with a Black Rapid and an Eos 5D. It is ok if you want to use a FF body but on a u43, I not sure I see the point.
As kimknapp said, it is big and heavy and around 600mm, I find it ok on the Canon but I'm not convinced on the OM-EM1 II.
I would rather use a Panasonic 100-400.



Nov 15, 2017 at 10:56 AM
jimmy462
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2


kimknapp wrote:
Jimmy,
I agree 100% about your comments re: serious Sony APS-C body. Since they are focusing on Pros more, I am hoping they will come out with an "A6", i.e., all the controls of the A7 (or, better yet, A9, including the new battery), but with an updated APS-C sensor. From my experimenting, I found that I usually got better results birding with the A7Rii and cropping it after the fact, then I did with the A6300, so some sensor improvements would be nice.

RE: Sigma S 150-600. It is in Florida and I won't be able to do any further testing
...Show more

Hi Kim,

Thanks so much for taking the time to get back on this, I do appreciate it! My biggest concern here was that, maybe, you had moved on to another system and glass...thankfully such isn't the case.

Regarding the weight issues...I currently shoot a 120-300mm Sport handheld on my a6300 and that lens weighs in at a smidge under 7.5lbs. (3.39kg) so I don't see that handholding the 6.3lb (2.86kg) 150-600mm Sport will be a problem for me. Most folks might think this setup to be greatly unbalanced but I've developed a lens-palming technique that balances well (where I can even thumb the focus-ring need be). If anything, moving into a GH5 at 1.6lbs (725g) or a EM1-II at 1.26lbs (574g) would increase my load against the 14.25oz. (404g) featherweight a6300! Ha!

Thanks for adding the Metabones T-Smart into the conversation, that was a bit of oversight on my end as it has certainly been in my considerations throughout these ponderings! However, the thought of making my 120-300mm Sport (MFT equivalent 240-600mm) an f/2 lens vs. f/2/8 with a SpeedBooster has also crossed my mind!

My questions regarding AF arise because I get mixed AF performance on the a6300 depending on whether I'm using Sigma's own MC-11 or the MB IV. Interestingly, the MB allows use of Sigma's 1401 (1.4x) and 2001 (2x) TCs but Siggy's TCs are not supported, and do not allow their lens' aperture to function, when using their own MC-11 adapter...go figure. What I'm trying to avoid doing, but I think is going to need to happen for me, here is to head off to Manhattan and belly-up at the B&H camera/lens counter and bring along a T-Smart and a couple of SD cards to try some lenses on both a GH5 and EM1-II (they're very accommodating that way!)...but if I have to go that route I'll certainly wait until the G9 has been released so I can test that one, too!

+1 on a Sony sport/wildlife APS-C camera with improved sensor in an a7/a9 style body!

Again, many thanks for this thread and for your personal response...very helpful to this fence jumper!


JG



Nov 15, 2017 at 07:17 PM
jimmy462
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2


pmeheut wrote:
Hi,
I have the Sigma 150-600 and I carry it with a Black Rapid and an Eos 5D. It is ok if you want to use a FF body but on a u43, I not sure I see the point.
As kimknapp said, it is big and heavy and around 600mm, I find it ok on the Canon but I'm not convinced on the OM-EM1 II.
I would rather use a Panasonic 100-400.


Hi pmeheut,

After checking out the GH5/100-400mm Dual-IS at the PDN Photo Expo it's certainly on my radar. However, before making such a heavy investment I'm looking to see if MFT IQ and ergonomics from either Panny or Oly suit my needs. Adapted glass gets me into the bodies to test the waters! And, if the AF-with-adapted-lens setup works just fine, then that's an amateur-budget concern solved!

Hope that helps.
Jimmy G



Nov 15, 2017 at 08:19 PM
pmeheut
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2


Ok. Those are indeed excellent reasons.
But you have to consider the price of the Metabones and if you really need to go up to 1200mm FF equivalent...
If not, there are other solutions. For instance, I paid less than 900€ for a brand new Canon 70-300L and it is much sharper.
However as with the 150-600, the AF on the Olympus is ok but slower and with a higher error rate than with native lenses.



Nov 16, 2017 at 01:07 AM
jimmy462
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2


pmeheut wrote:
Ok. Those are indeed excellent reasons.
But you have to consider the price of the Metabones and if you really need to go up to 1200mm FF equivalent...
If not, there are other solutions. For instance, I paid less than 900€ for a brand new Canon 70-300L and it is much sharper.
However as with the 150-600, the AF on the Olympus is ok but slower and with a higher error rate than with native lenses.


Well, shooting at 600mm (and really, anything over 300mm in my experience) at distance requires one to be cognizant of local ground level atmospherics. If the air is roiling at ground level one is ultimately limited in their subject distance regardless of optical- and/or sensor-output-quality. Binoculars are "de rigueur" equipment for me if I'm out with my 120-300mm Sport or longer-FL lens...through trial and a lot of error over the years I've learned to gauge image expectations based on how much my target is boiling in the binos with what focal length I have at hand. As a result I'm out with the 120-300 and (as needed) 1.4x TC much more often than I am with the 150-600mm Contemporary (currently on test for my sweetie)!

Which all brings us back around to the topic here...adapted telephoto glass on MFT. That my work horse 120-300 (with 1.4x TC ) functions as well on MFT as it currently does on E-mount then it negates (in-a-fashion) my need to consider the Panny/Leica 100-400mm. I gain a 420mm (MFT eq 840) @ f4 setup vs 400mm (MFT eq 800) @ f/6.3 with the caveat that I'd be sacrificing Dual-IS for either lens OS or IBIS but not both together with the Siggy.

A 150-600 would find (it's already limited) use at dawn (and shortly thereafter) and sundown (and shortly before) or on cloudy calm days or other times when the local ground air allows, and that's where ISO and noise performance enter into the equation. (FWIW, ISO/noise were why I discounted the 16MP MFTs for my usage and why those parameter improvements in the 20MP MFTs have put them into play for me.) It's why Kim's (OP's) images are so impressive to me...the sun is up (but low) and the air is already messing with clarity but, even with those enemies-of-sharpness at play, the less-than-perfect-lens/small-pixel-sensor combo are still pulling out relatively good detail. All I needed to know was how well the gear worked together! (I can do the rest. )

Of course, learning how to make something-resembling-art against all those air and equipment limitations becomes the big and next challenge!




Nov 16, 2017 at 10:32 AM
pmeheut
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2


You like big lenses, don't you?
Just teasing you because everything you say makes a lot of sense.



Nov 16, 2017 at 02:40 PM
kimknapp
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2


Jimmy,
Since I won't be able to retest AF abilities until mid-December, maybe you should rent the EM1.2 and Metabones and try them.

Kim



Nov 17, 2017 at 09:59 AM
jimmy462
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2


Hi Kim,

At this point in time I'll be doing more homework on MFT while waiting out the G9 release. I'm very much in need of ergonomic relief from my Sony bodies and that MFT can offer me good daytime ISO 6400 performance I'll gladly part ways with my a6300. Thankfully I'm close enough to Manhattan that "belly time" at the B&H camera/lens counter can save me the expense of renting gear! Did I mention that I'm frugal?! Ha!

Thanks again!
Jimmy G



Nov 17, 2017 at 09:32 PM
kimknapp
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2


I am back at where I left the Sigma (Florida) and did some shots yesterday.

One thing I am noticing is that CAF does not seem to work with the Metabones/Sigma combo. I don't remember testing that the last time. It will focus, but when the shot is taken it jumps out of focus before the shutter is opened. I'll experiment with it some more. Could be something I am doing wrong.

All of my shots have been in good light.
SAF is very fast unless the lens needs to go all the way from close to far or vice-versa. Generally, it is almost as fast as a native lens. When in SAF mode with wide focus points, I can pretty easily grab a shot of a bird in flight, unless it is something especially fast, like a Kingfisher. Since it is not continuous focus, you would not be able to use BBF, but instead, just use the trigger in one complete motion so that the bird does not fly closer or farther between the time the camera focuses and the shutter is released. So, all-in-all, not a great BIF solution.

But, with sitting birds it is great.

Here is are examples of a very cooperative egret taken with the Sigma Sport 150-600 with EM1.2 body and with a Sony A7Riii with 100-400GM. Since the Sony kit, when cropped, ends up being equivalent to about 600mm (18MP crop) and the Olympus/Sigma combo is about equivalent to 1200mm, I had to downsize the Oly/Sigma photo. I also worked on exposure a bit, to make them look about the same. By the way, even when pixel peeping the Oly image at 100%, the image is still very sharp. Neither lens was on a tripod. The Oly/Sigma combo was slightly supported against a car and was taken at only 1/800 sec!!

NO SHARPENING WAS APPLIED TO EITHER IMAGE

See if you can tell which was which.

The rest of the day, when the birds were far away or I wanted an especially close shot, I used the Oly/Sigma. When we hiked away from the car or the bird was closer, I used the Sony. The Sony kit feels 1/2 the weight of the Oly/Sigma. Update: just weighed them on a digital bathroom scale 5.4lb vs. 9.2lb.

I don't subscribe to the "the lens is too big for the body" way of thinking. I didn't get into mirrorless because of the size. I got into it because my last Canon (40D)'s mirror was apparently adjusted poorly and the only way I could get a well focused shot was in Live View. When shooting with the Oly and the big Sigma lens, it feels great, since the Oly's handgrip is about perfect for me and, of course, I always support the lens with my left hand and use the EVF. The only shortcoming, when shooting handheld with the combo, is that the Sigma's focus ring is not in a handy location when I want to use MF (branches in the way, etc.).

Kim



© Maynard Knapp 2017





© Maynard Knapp 2017




Dec 17, 2017 at 10:43 AM
kimknapp
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2


And here is an example of why I won't give it up, even if it is too heavy (And, even if I did not use the full 600mm)

Kim



© Maynard Knapp 2017

EM 1.2 Sigma 150-600 Sport @ 383 (767mm equiv) 1/800 sec @ f/6.3 ISO 500 -0.7EV




Dec 17, 2017 at 10:57 AM
DanC.Licks
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Sigma 150-600 Sport on EM1.2


Kim,
C-AF is hopeless with any lens* through the Metabones Smart Adapter. They say it works, and maybe in theory it does, but in reality it doesn't. It is so slow it knocks the frame rate down to useless levels. Same holds true with the older FT lenses. As these lenses rely only on the phase detect AF, the communication between camera and lens is too slow, and the focusing elements and motors are too big to be able to react fast enough. Plus the focusing pixels are so tiny, they don't get anywhere near as much light an in a DSLR, and that slows things down further. I always had the best luck with taking advantage of focus limiters where possible, and taking short bursts in S-AF.
AF on the new 300/4 Pro is MUCH faster, both S-AF and C-AF, though I haven't really tried out C-AF much. Nothing flying around here this time of year other than crows...
I liked the Siggy on the Mark II. I liked the feel and the stability the mass gives. I just needed something I could carry around and hand hold more easily, so I sold it and stuck with the Canon, which has now made way for the 300/4 Pro.
*I tried a number of different lenses, but mostly the Sigma 150-600 S and the Canon 400/5.6. S-AF was slightly faster with the Siggy. Quite good when there was enough light.



Dec 17, 2017 at 11:04 AM
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