Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

Sports Corner Rules
Sports Corner Resource
  

FM Forums | Sports Corner | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
  

night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help
  
 
trucks
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


It's been a while since I was into photography, I used to shoot youth through high school sports (just my own kids).

I've taken up pool / bowl skateboarding (there is an active over 50 community), and would like to embrace photography again.

Unlike youth sports, this is short focal length mostly; and we usually skate at night (think tennis court lighting). I've never shot sports with flash, and I don't think I would really want to. Also keeping gear load minimal is of interest. If flash is the only way to really get wall hanger class photos, just tell me now, I can take it.

I would really like a full frame camera... the newest (best high ISO performance) camera I have access to is an 80D that actually belongs to my daughter. I don't know that I want to regularly take her gear.

My understanding is Nikon and Sony have the best AF tracking. I'm already in bed with Canon, but I think I'll be buying a 16-35/2.8 ish lens regardless of body choice. If I were to buy another brand, I find myself more interested in A9 than Nikon.

I'm thinking either 1DX (used), or 1DX2 (new), or A9. I'll buy a 16-35/2.8 either way. The 5dM4 is great, but I think I would regret not having the faster shooting camera.

Given the specific application (artificial light, night time, non flash, fast sports), and the fact that I'm skating, so I want whatever offers a high yield advantage with regard to focus tracking. I'll be shooting wide aperture, and pushing ISO, hoping to be able to pull it off without going to primes (I want to skate, and take pics, not piddle with gear more than necessary).

Thoughts? Am I wrong with my research summery options listed here?



Sep 04, 2017 at 10:37 PM
Surftim714
Online

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


I'm not sure what type of budget you are looking at. Canon's 1D series has excellent focus tracking, and you can frequently find used 1D models on the FM website that may be a generation or two old that will work fine. I myself use a 1D mk iv, with flash for night high school football and have been happy with the results. Results vary by location, background, and stadium lighting.

Whatever you decide, the back-button focus is what you would want to use for setting up the camera for sports.



Sep 05, 2017 at 09:51 PM
trucks
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


Hi Surftim, thanks for the comments.

I'm absolutely open to saving $$ and buying used, previous generation equipment. Thanks for bringing it up. My thoughts were that the improved performance into the higher ISO range would buy me a few stops, and given the poor lighting and fast action, might be worth buying latest generation.

What kind of range and FPS can you get with your flash? What flash are you using? I have the nagging fear of distracting the subject with a flash, but I realize using a flash is very common.

Thanks for the thoughts, and any further info that might help me out.

Barry



Sep 06, 2017 at 01:08 AM
Surftim714
Online

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


I've been using a Canon 600EX RT, powered by a Quantum Turbo Slim powerpack. Last week I also picked up a knock-off brand of that unit, a YN686EX RT that uses a proprietary lithium battery that is supposed to be good for 600 flashes between charges. I've only tested it once and was using it in combination with my Canon (used two flashes) for a Friday Night Football Game, the results were good.

The good thing about the knock-off (can't attest to durability yet), is that it only costs $150 at B&H, compared to $500-$600 for the Canon equivalent.

Both of these flashes are Radio Trigger compatible, and you can get a knock-off ST-E3 trigger for under $100 on Amazon.

Yongnuo Speedlite Wireless Transmitter YN-E3-RT for Canon Cameras AS ST-E3-RT

In theory, you could buy two of the knock off flashes & the Wireless Transmitter all for under $400 (less than the cost of just one new Canon 600EX RT flash unit). Then you could mount them to light stands, or tripods at the pool being used for skateboarding, and shoot from up to around 300 feet away from your flashes. I can't attest that the 90+meter rating of the wireless trigger is accurate, as I've only tested them indoors with a distance of maybe 20 feet, and in actual use they are attached to the monopod my camera is attached to, so we are only talking less than 36 inches distance.

Just throwing ideas out there for your that could help you get better results. Higher ISO will get you images, but there will be some graininess, and no detail to the faces/eyes. Flash will get you a proper exposure and facial expression and eyes will be visible.



Sep 06, 2017 at 04:25 PM
Surftim714
Online

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


For night skateboarding, you may be able to pick up a used 24-70 2.8 type 1 for not much money (compared to the Type II anyway). When I shoot night football I'm using a 2.8 300 but the action can be further away from me. The flash gets me the proper exposure, including the faces under the helmets, while the 2.8 gives me the background blur that I like.


Sep 06, 2017 at 04:28 PM
trucks
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


right on, and thanks for the info. There is a 1dMk4 used at BH right now, I may pick it up. I have a 580EX, and a 420EX, and ST-E2 from back in the day, just have not dusted them off in a while (580EX was just released I believe, when I bought it), and never used the remote, and never tried a flash for sports.

With a battery pack, what kind of burst rate can the flash support? I will be close to the action, so range isn't an issue.

Thanks again.



Sep 06, 2017 at 05:36 PM
Surftim714
Online

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


To be honest, I don't usually burst my shots, but can get 2 maybe 3 with the battery pack. The knockoff I was speaking of is supposed to have 1.5 second recycle time.

If you are close enough to the action, you could experiment with HSS flash, it drastically reduces the distance you can shoot. This is used in shooting daytime skating, and how you can see their faces under their hats when the sun is overhead. I've never used HSS myself, but I know my flashes do have that capability.




Sep 06, 2017 at 10:27 PM
trucks
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


Thanks for the advise Surftim.

Best Regards



Sep 06, 2017 at 11:37 PM
sklar
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


Your definition of wall-hanger may vary from others', but I do think flash will be the best way to go.

Despite a general preference for the newest and best, you can get a pretty solid setup for not much money. My propensity for thrift may come from youth, but coming up as an action sports photography, there isn't a lot of money around. Anyways...

If I was starting from scratch to build a setup just to shoot bowl skating, I would get:
5d4- it's decently fast, and you're only going to get one frame at a time shooting with flashes anyways. Focus tracking is good, but again, it doesn't matter, you'll be prefocusing anyways.
15mm fisheye- sigma or canon, they're about equal as far as I have researched, I owned the sigma for years.

Flashes and triggers, you can spend a lot of money if you want. Right off the bat, you can get going for as low as about $200.
Yongnuo 603 triggers and Vivitar 285hv speedlights. 3 lights ought to be plenty for key, fill and rim.



Sep 07, 2017 at 09:52 PM
trucks
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


Sklar, thanks for the information and recommendation. Sorry slow to respond, was out of town.

I think I need to read up on flash photography. I really like to "spray and pray" as they say. I like to think it's a more deliberate "spray". I can't imagine manual focus with a wide open lens, since a foot or two of variation could botch the sharpness. I believe you, but maybe this type of shooting is too far outside my skill level.

I do like the idea of the 5DIV; the reason I discounted it is shooting speed; but if flash limits that anyway, I sure like that price point much better than 1DXII.

I need to read up on flash options and shooting style. I'm clearly not ready to buy without understanding this better.

Thanks so much,
Barry



Sep 09, 2017 at 06:55 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



sklar
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


With flashes you'll likely be shooting in the f8 neighborhood, which is plenty of DOF, especially when you're shooting wide. When shooting wide like this, you're going to be using your composition and lighting not DOF to create subject isolation

Standard operating procedure for me (with or without flash) with a fisheye is to visualize the shot, prefocus with af (or just guess by the numbers) and set it to manual. The AF is definitely not fast enough, especially when you're that close.

If you don't want to shoot wide, it's a lot tough to get clean backgrounds. Here are some awesome example from a favorite photographer of mine, Tal Roberts.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXmHZsQFdkJ/?taken-by=talroberts
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXwgJXrFuOm/?taken-by=talroberts
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXGkXN8l72j/?taken-by=talroberts
https://www.instagram.com/p/BWioP0cFZTs/?taken-by=talroberts



Sep 11, 2017 at 03:05 PM
trucks
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


wow, nice shots. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the explanation of a manual focus methodology. I for sure want wide glass. I'm really interested in learning this now.

We skate Wednesday night, I may take my 7D with my 580EX and 420EX (my stuff is old I know) to get a feel for using flash.

Thanks again,




Sep 12, 2017 at 01:53 AM
pswann
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


Trucks,

Just curious, are you shooting at the skate park down by House Park? Would flash bother/blind the skaters? I would think you could get some cool effects at night by not trying to freeze motion of the skaters and, instead, capture some motion blur shot wide angle. Just a thought. Would love to see some of your shots.




Oct 13, 2017 at 01:59 AM
osv2
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


trucks wrote:
Given the specific application (artificial light, night time, non flash, fast sports), and the fact that I'm skating, so I want whatever offers a high yield advantage with regard to focus tracking. I'll be shooting wide aperture, and pushing ISO, hoping to be able to pull it off without going to primes (I want to skate, and take pics, not piddle with gear more than necessary).


i shot this with an a7r and an old legacy olympus 28/3.5 lens, wide open, you don't need fancy gear... since you are shooting action, you'll have to be at 1/800th minimum, and wrt night shots, you really do want a flash... even in daylight, i wished that i could have put a bit of fill flash in this photo... get a flash with hss-capability.

Jordyn Barratt skateboarding SuperGirl Pro by DragRacingTV.com, on Flickr



Oct 13, 2017 at 06:40 PM
gschlact
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


Since you have a 7d and 80d to experiment with along with two flashes, I would use them to experiment and hone in on what will work before spending thousands of dollars on a new body. Definitely get some flash trigger capabilities. You might get away with keeping one at bottom of rampmshooting up for under helmet fill, but it will depend on your park's lighting. As a reference most school gyms will five 1/500 f2.8 iso 6400 give or take a little, unless they have new led or high efficiency fluorescent, then you'll drop to iso3200. If you will mostly capture the skater at the top of their trick, they are actually not moving that fast at that moment but experimentation necessary. See what works. Have you already tried? What setting and results did you get?


Oct 13, 2017 at 07:52 PM
trucks
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


Thanks for the comments all!

PSwann, I skate House, Brushy, and Pville. I've only shot my skate buddies, and they have not brought up the flash being distracting. I'll check with them though.

OSV2, wow! wonder capture! Thanks for all the advice.

Gschlact, Thanks for the advice and guidance on metering expectations.

I've been shooting with my 7D, only had a few real sessions. I've only been skating once per week.

First attempt was shooting at night with 50/1.4 wide open. I was really disappointed; I really couldn't nail the focus.

2nd attempt was using 8-15/4L, daylight, without flash. I was going to post a pic, but my son is playing games on that computer... urg... It was AM sun, so the low sun cast a shadow in pool. Only some walls and angles worked

3rd attempt I used an on camera flash (my 580EX) and shot with the 8-15/4L at F8. Focus was good, but I really can't time a shot without spray and pray. My eyes aren't even that good, I'm kinda skeptical I will be able to get this.

I am delighted that shooting stopped down focus is so easy. At f1.4 it was frustrating.

I picked up a battery for my old ste2, so next session will be 580EX and 420EX both remote. I am skeptical just because I'm not sure I can time a shot. We don't catch air, getting the instant the truck is on the coping is critical to make us look good (at least that is what I'm thinking now). My daylight shots without flash I had better luck by a long shot (i.e. spray and pray). My friends are expecting wall hangers... I gotta get my game on...

Would lighting such as AD600 give me a refresh rate that would keep up with camera (i.e 7-10fps ish)

Thanks all,





Oct 15, 2017 at 12:07 AM
pat.kane
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


a few shots here worth looking at
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1441793



Oct 15, 2017 at 02:50 AM
darryn patch
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


Id go with the same setup ppl use in a water housing to shoot surfers from the water

15mm fish eye
Chuck the lens into manual focus mode after presetting the focus at 1.5m
Dial in 1/500 or more of shutter speed at 2.8

easy peasy



Oct 15, 2017 at 03:32 AM
trucks
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


I like the simplicity, thanks for sharing that.


Oct 15, 2017 at 01:48 PM
trucks
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · night time skateboarding... pool skating... gear help


a couple of photos; I know I'm way below standard around this joint, but I wanted to show this is not a hypothetical discussion... I really do want to learn to shoot skateboarding and flash. These were with 580EX on camera, no defuser of any type, just pointed straight ahead. There was a 420 EX slave, but it was out of range on the "looking down" shot.

My next session should be with my ST-E2 and the 580EX and 420EX both off camera.












Oct 15, 2017 at 11:40 PM
1
       2       end






FM Forums | Sports Corner | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password