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Archive 2017 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G

  
 
Gary Clennan
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p.16 #1 · p.16 #1 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


I do know that Colby Brown mentioned it was great for shooting stars and nightscapes... FWIW.


May 23, 2017 at 10:59 PM
akclimber
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p.16 #2 · p.16 #2 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G




cams884 wrote:
Good to hear! That would probably tip it over the line for me.


Me too. I'm gonna wait and see but if it really performs as good as the raws I saw I'm in.



May 24, 2017 at 01:02 AM
molson
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p.16 #3 · p.16 #3 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Bespoked wrote:
'Zeiss gear delivers a unique image which Sigma, Tamron nor Tokina can create'

Bold statement.


Bold, but true nonetheless.



May 26, 2017 at 09:30 AM
chez
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p.16 #4 · p.16 #4 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Bespoked wrote:
It's an opinion, in my opinion, not a statistically proven fact.


Exactly, just like bokeh and drawing styles...can't statistically categorize these features, but they are present none the less, very much like micro contrast and colours.



May 27, 2017 at 08:28 PM
chez
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p.16 #5 · p.16 #5 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Bespoked wrote:
Still, an opinion.

It's like saying Canon make the best cameras because there are some obscure, immeasurable characteristics that a few people can see.


Well since you brought it up...yes many people shoot Canon because they like the ergonomics of their system better than Sony and Nikon. In fact opinions as you call them are much stronger than statistically measurable values. When you look at an image do you extract some statistical values from that image and decide by analyzing these values if you like the image or not...or do you rely on your emotions when viewing the image to tell you what you like about it.

Yes opinions do exist and are very valid.

That's my final opinion on this topic.



May 28, 2017 at 06:43 AM
molson
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p.16 #6 · p.16 #6 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Bespoked wrote:
It's an opinion, in my opinion, not a statistically proven fact.


The majority of the people that own them share that opinion, which is a measureable statistic.

Sony must also share that opinion, since they went to a lot of expense to use Zeiss lenses in their product lines...



May 28, 2017 at 08:07 AM
molson
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p.16 #7 · p.16 #7 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Bespoked wrote:
I'm an extremely disloyal consumer and I research each and every product I buy far too well to enjoy it sometimes, so I'm separated from passionate purchases (most of the time), I could be wrong but the data I see supports my opinion.



Or, as the saying goes, some can't see the forest for the trees...

Maybe you should stop spending so much time trying to analyse other people's data, and go out and take some photos of your own.



May 28, 2017 at 11:22 PM
chez
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p.16 #8 · p.16 #8 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Bespoked wrote:
Many people share the opinion that German cars are the most reliable products of their type, but, since I also work in automotive and have for decades and I deal with statistics, the data clearly (and has shown consistently since the early 80's) that it is a myth,
here is one credible report.

Opinions, wives tales, trust/reputation built in a brand or product of a certain origin that is no longer relevant and great marketing aren't hard facts.

I'm an extremely disloyal consumer and I research each and every product I buy far too well to enjoy it sometimes, so I'm separated
...Show more

Please show us this data which supports Sigma, Tamron and say Tokina lenses produce the same image characteristics as Zeiss lenses. The images ( note I look at images and not graphs ) that I see and take do not support this claim.




May 28, 2017 at 11:41 PM
Aztatlan
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p.16 #9 · p.16 #9 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


I love Zeiss glass, but not for it's "characteristics" or "look" which frankly I can't see at all. Perhaps because my landscapes (which is all I shoot) end up being heavily processed in most cases, likely obfuscating any baseline rendering differences in the lenses. That is not to say that other photographers can't see it, or that other types of photography aside from landscapes may not show the differences more clearly.

I love my Zeiss stuff for the solid and tight build quality and resolution/sharpness.

If anyone can pick the Zeiss-made shots from these (without cheating and looking at the EXIF) - congrats - you have a better eye than me.













In this batch there are two images taken with Zeiss glass. The rest are a mix of other brands.



May 29, 2017 at 06:51 AM
Parariss
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p.16 #10 · p.16 #10 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Are we off topic, yet?


May 29, 2017 at 08:33 AM
Randolph K
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p.16 #11 · p.16 #11 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


I must be losing my mind but I thought I clicked on the 16-35 // 12-24 Sony thread.


May 29, 2017 at 02:29 PM
philip_pj
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p.16 #12 · p.16 #12 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Not to throw (too much) more off-thread petrol on the fire, just to say there are so many shooters who own 80-100% Zeiss, after they have tried all else. Interesting is the attitude of Sony's 1.8/55mm designer, who is quoted as saying the Japanese optical engineers love German optics and actively try to produce similar lenses, by making them less optically perfect. He was referring to the judgment calls designers make in balancing various aberrations, etc.

Comps are useless unless OOC, and each lens from everyone has its own signature - or should! But I can buy a Loxia 85mm and know it will be very similar to the 100/3.5 I have, it's the Zeiss Sonnar formula. Call it genetics or heritage. The more you chase the look, the more likely Carl's people will hear from you after a decade or three, if not before. The others are great too, not to disparage them, but time in the game helps.



May 29, 2017 at 05:10 PM
Javier Munoz
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p.16 #13 · p.16 #13 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


molson wrote:
The majority of the people that own them share that opinion, which is a measureable statistic.


....Or cognitive disonance



May 30, 2017 at 02:27 AM
molson
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p.16 #14 · p.16 #14 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Javier Munoz wrote:
....Or cognitive disonance


... or those who can't see the visible differences are suffering from visual impairment...



May 30, 2017 at 06:58 AM
Aztatlan
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p.16 #15 · p.16 #15 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


molson wrote:
... or those who can't see the visible differences are suffering from visual impairment...


No one has taken me up on my challenge yet



May 30, 2017 at 07:40 AM
GMPhotography
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p.16 #16 · p.16 #16 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Sony lenses are pretty close to Zeiss to start off. Obviously some made by Zeiss but even Sony branded ones are very close in color at least. Saturation and micro contrast are really what let's Zeiss stand apart. Now I never found a Nikon/canon lens to compare with Zeiss in a big way. If anything I find Sony glass compares the best to Zeiss. It's one reason I switched to Sony from Nikon outside body considerations. Now does this really matter in away yes if you are more a micro contrast / more saturation type shooter. I actually liked Canon glass over Nikon as far as color. Sigma has less saturation than Zeiss as I can see that in my 135 but Sigma Art lenses are extremely sharp so the micro contrast might even favor Sigma.reality is my 135 maybe the sharpest tool in the shed to the rest of my glass. Now these are not really major differences, to me it's more when a lens renders a more 3D effect that counts more. Obviously things can be matched color wise in post but 3D rendering cannot. So more my buying advice is look for lenses that pop out at you. Again you could argue this till the cows come home and it's just my opinion . But in general Zeiss has more pop to the images both in color and micro contrast. It could also be a curse to the portrait shooter as you may want more neutral look.

Really depends on what your looking for. Some folks like lasers and disregard color and saturation. Others the opposite. Depends on what your after



May 30, 2017 at 08:00 AM
molson
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p.16 #17 · p.16 #17 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Aztatlan wrote:
No one has taken me up on my challenge yet


Those could have been taken with an iPhone. Can you post something other than the JPEG thumbnails?



May 30, 2017 at 08:08 AM
MJKoski
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p.16 #18 · p.16 #18 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Canon TS-E (24mm mk2 and 17mm) lenses have superb Zeiss like microcontrast when it comes to wide angles. TS-E colors are a bit more neutral though. 19mm PC-E seems to deliver even more pop and crackle.


May 30, 2017 at 08:26 AM
Aztatlan
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p.16 #19 · p.16 #19 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


molson wrote:
Those could have been taken with an iPhone. Can you post something other than the JPEG thumbnails?


I don't generally post high res/full res images online. As I am sure you can appreciate, giving the stuff away free is not conducive to a good licensing business

Surely an obvious Zeiss 'look' or 'signature' should be visible even in web-size JPGs? I've seen plenty of people claiming to see it in web-size images over the years. To be clear, I can't see it but I'm not saying no one can or that it doesn't exist. Just that for me, it ain't visible. (That is true of any given image, not only these specific ones I posted.)



May 30, 2017 at 03:57 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.16 #20 · p.16 #20 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Aztatlan wrote:
I don't generally post high res/full res images online. As I am sure you can appreciate, giving the stuff away free is not conducive to a good licensing business

Surely an obvious Zeiss 'look' or 'signature' should be visible even in web-size JPGs? I've seen plenty of people claiming to see it in web-size images over the years. To be clear, I can't see it but I'm not saying no one can or that it doesn't exist. Just that for me, it ain't visible. (That is true of any given image, not only these specific ones I posted.)


Actually I don't think the qualities that I admire about Zeiss lenses are often visible in web size jpeg of the size that you have posted. Those wouldn't even make 4 X 6 prints. Microcontrast is one of the measurable qualities that many Zeiss lenses posses, but you see that in fairly large prints (in my experience at least 11 X 17) and it is hard to see it at smaller sizes. What you can see in some small web sized jpegs is bokeh and some Zeiss lenses have pretty distinctive and nice bokeh. Your shots don't lend themselves to that either. A third characteristic of many Zeiss lenses is excellent performance at or near the minimum focus distance. Again that isn't something you can see in these images. And finally some Zeiss lens have very low aberrations, but again the shots you posted don't really lend themselves to evaluating that either. So, I don't think these examples allow me to look for the things I appreciate about many Zeiss lenses, but I do think they can be seen in other types of shots and in large images.



May 30, 2017 at 07:29 PM
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