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Ball + Geared Hybrid Head
  
 
Andre Y
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


You could get two different heads. I know that's more expensive, but it will probably perform better for each individual task.


Mar 16, 2017 at 06:01 PM
Bacalhau
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Andre Y wrote:
You could get two different heads. I know that's more expensive, but it will probably perform better for each individual task.



you are killing me Andre ...or laying grounds for my wife to kill me
ok - picking one: macro photography, and yes, I do use a rrs macro rail.
I envision the D4 as more suitable than the T5 or P0, as it has a wider tilt range, but the T5 seems that will be faster to get the initial adjustments done as the ballhead mount is more flexible

my feeling with the p0 is that will be great for pannos and architectural, but I am so turned off by the AS approach: basically it's an old model with an add-on and let's call new and innovative sort of feeling left on me

the astro needs are more in the final adjustment, getting to align it with an sky object, and not having any sag



Mar 16, 2017 at 06:26 PM
Andre Y
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


On second thought, the Cube could work for both, and it costs as much as 2 heads!


Mar 16, 2017 at 06:35 PM
Bacalhau
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Andre Y wrote:
On second thought, the Cube could work for both, and it costs as much as 2 heads!


you are pretty much right on the cost side for sure...but it's a cumbersome setup, and I take my gear for long walks.
at least you did point at the linholf heads...




Mar 16, 2017 at 06:50 PM
hiepphotog
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Bacalhau wrote:
you are killing me Andre ...or laying grounds for my wife to kill me
ok - picking one: macro photography, and yes, I do use a rrs macro rail.
I envision the D4 as more suitable than the T5 or P0, as it has a wider tilt range, but the T5 seems that will be faster to get the initial adjustments done as the ballhead mount is more flexible

my feeling with the p0 is that will be great for pannos and architectural, but I am so turned off by the AS approach: basically it's an old model with an add-on
...Show more

I'm not sure what the T5 or D4 can do that the P0 hybrid can't, especially in the case of the T5. With macro, you use the head to dial in the composition, then use the macro rail to get the DOF you want (that's what I assume you do). I have done a lot of stacked focus product shots so far on the P0 Hybrid without any problem. I have spent a whole day shooting extensively with the T5 as well to form my opinion.

One point that is often overlooked is the position of the knobs. I find that with the T5, there will be an important knob on the right hand side or awkwardly in front. With the ring system, I can position the P0 Hybrid so that I have the main knobs at the back and left only.

Like I said, the Arca approach seems to be "crude" but it works much better in reality than the "hybrid" D4 or T5, at least IMO. The only thing the T5 has over the P0 Hybrid is in the load capacity. Everything else is inferior to me.



Mar 16, 2017 at 09:23 PM
Bacalhau
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


I believe the p0 will handle well a 1Dx body with ef 180, macro rail and flash - could not find any reports of issues, except when getting close to max load capacity.
it seems that the D4 might exhibit some flex - but according to specs, the p0 is the one with least amount of tilt.
Did you find that to be an issue?



Mar 16, 2017 at 09:56 PM
hiepphotog
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Bacalhau wrote:
I believe the p0 will handle well a 1Dx body with ef 180, macro rail and flash - could not find any reports of issues, except when getting close to max load capacity.
it seems that the D4 might exhibit some flex - but according to specs, the p0 is the one with least amount of tilt.
Did you find that to be an issue?


The ball part and the geared part are separated, unlike on the D4 or T5 where they're coupled. So theoretically, you have the most amount of tilt there. Of course, if you want to tilt everything with just the geared mechanism, the P0 Hybrid is certainly has the least amount. But then, the Cube should be the one to get. The idea of this hybrid ball+geared combo is to do large adjustment with the ball part, then tiny, precise adjustment (which should be small) with the geared part.

For my macro approach, the 10-degree swing (20 from one end to the other) hasn't been a problem. I haven't been able to really max that out either. I'm using a 90mm macro lens, just to be clear.



Mar 17, 2017 at 05:50 PM
Bacalhau
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Thanks once again for your insights really appreciate them.
My fear with the cube is finding that is too much of a specialized gear or worst yet, that would be the right one after gone with other choice.....
Aside price itself, there is the usability while shooting outside - it's not a fast setup, it's heavier than all others and it might not like mud, and dirt that much. Not that toss my gear on it, but it happens to be everywhere, mostly when I am shooting mushrooms and wildflowers for instance.
Have you ever tried the linholf heads? they seem very similar to the cube, but more compact.

Last night I played a bit with the T5, add up the macro rail and a panno plate, and then mounted the 1Dx with l bracket, and the leica apo 100mm. It hold very well, with no sag, but showed some struggle when I was removing tilt per say, and the friction knob, does click going thru the set numbers when you tight it up.

I think that the geared D4 is out of consideration, but.....(sigh) now I also think that I have to get the cube in for consideration too.
my biggest draw against the cube aside cost, is that is such a specialized tool, that hinders using it for everyday - talking about mainly having all movements under gear tension


Edited on Mar 18, 2017 at 12:27 AM · View previous versions



Mar 17, 2017 at 06:35 PM
jharter
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Off topic re: the Arca Swiss P0 - I have never seen or heard of anyone using the P1. Very little on YouTube, no comparisons, etc.

As for the P0 Hybrid - it does seem like an odd approach to me and somewhat of a tower. I know it is about the same height as the T5 but with the inverted ball design it looks it looks like a thick monopod on top of a ball head. Never used one so just an observation. I do have a regular P0 and it is a great ball head.



Mar 17, 2017 at 06:53 PM
hiepphotog
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Bacalhau wrote:
Thanks once again for your insights really appreciate them.
My fear with the cube is finding that is too much of a specialized gear or worst yet, that would be the right one after gone with other choice.....
Aside price itself, there is the usability while shooting outside - it's not a fast setup, it's heavier than all others and it might not like mud, and dirt that much. Not that toss my gear on it, but it happens to be everywhere, mostly when I am shooting mushrooms and wildflowers for instance.
Have you ever tried the linholf heads? they seem very similar
...Show more

I asked a lot of people in the past when I was in the market for a geared head. The Linhof head is about as heavy as the cube while being much slower due to finer gear. It also has less swing/tilt range.

This is a decent review of the Linhof: https://photographylife.com/reviews/linhof-3d-micro/

The main reason why I sold my Cube was because of size and weight. It does take longer to adjust than a normal ball head if you just want to change the camera composition, but landscape, architecture and tripod macro don't really need the speed from my experience.



Mar 20, 2017 at 03:47 PM
 

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hiepphotog
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


jharter wrote:
Off topic re: the Arca Swiss P0 - I have never seen or heard of anyone using the P1. Very little on YouTube, no comparisons, etc.

As for the P0 Hybrid - it does seem like an odd approach to me and somewhat of a tower. I know it is about the same height as the T5 but with the inverted ball design it looks it looks like a thick monopod on top of a ball head. Never used one so just an observation. I do have a regular P0 and it is a great ball head.


I believe cause if you need that much load from the P1, you might as well get a low profile BH-55 or the Z1.



Mar 20, 2017 at 03:49 PM
Bacalhau
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Thanks H,
yeah, I read some other reviews, and indeed is sort of step back compared with the cube.

was able to use the T5 this weekend doing some close up and macro photography. It holds pretty well and caught my self re-positioning the head (axis lines) a few times, but was also able to compensate tweaking both knobs simultaneously when I did not had the axis aligned with subject.
Not too happy with the pan knob and function on the T5 - a bit too small and and harsh to touch and found the pan movement not to be very fluid - smooth but requires more applied force than for instance my Markins Q20.
I want to test it again with a panno plate - forgot to pack on my outing, but overall did a good job, but I think that I need to test the cube too, easy to see the weight and size impact, but not sure if I want it mounted on my tripod the whole time.



Mar 20, 2017 at 04:24 PM
Bacalhau
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


The cube is coming.....that's the only to know for sure.



Mar 21, 2017 at 05:09 AM
Bacalhau
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


ok, so it's like...uhhh...WOW.

"once you go cube, you will never ballhead"

The truth is the kps has no issued holding a heavy kit, but the geared movements are slow - slower than the cube, and even with drag set to two, there was some induced movement tilting down past minus 45 degrees(meaning it would move a quite bit faster tilting down than upwards)
With the cube, the gears actually move faster than I expected, and there is no induced movement when inclining it more than 45 degrees up or down.
So, it's really precise and strong, as it is heavy and expensive.
My advice - RUN-LOOK AWAY-DON'T LOOK.
It's a a bit hard to justify spend so much, but even harder letting it go, because I know it will last and outperform anything else in this category.



Mar 25, 2017 at 05:38 AM
kdphotography
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


If looking at a dedicated geared head, the Cube stands alone. The only downside is price and weight. The price on paper is an instant deterrent (crazy comes to mind), but once in hand, there is this "a-ha" moment with the Cube, and then the price of entry becomes understood more as an "investment." I've used the AS Cube for many years, and it remains rock solid and one of my most valued pieces of equipment.

I use my Cube on a studio camera stand or on my TVC-33 tripod legs. I would not use the Cube on anything less capable (size or spider) than a TVC-33 or similar class as the Cube is top heavy on anything less---and hence why the the KPS T5 remains on my TVC-24 legs.

If price or the need for a hybrid ball/geared option is a requirement, than the KPS T5 works great. The T5 is my portable travel option. I prefer my TVC-33 and Cube where possible. I have not had the opportunity to try the new hybrid P0, but I would expect the execution by AS to be excellent.

Ken

p.s. A panning top clamp works great on the KPS T5. I have a brand new RRS lever release panning clamp PC-LR B that I may need to sell because my Cambo WRS 1600 has an affixed AS plate that is not RRS compatible. Back to screw clamps on my Cube. : (



Mar 25, 2017 at 02:56 PM
Bacalhau
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


I have a dovetaill RRS panno plate, and does provide indeed some more functionality, but makes the head even taller and a more unbalanced setup - read top heavy.
with the T5, a moment of distraction releasing tension can become a finger crushing - I did come very close to pinch my fingers, as I was trying the knob tension.

What detracts me from the new P0 hybrid is the top heavy look - might not reflect such while working with it


at 2:50 plus or minus there seems to be a wobble as he tests the friction knob abilities.
the gear movements seems to be very similar to the cube, but way more limited in range, for which the balhead part will compensate, or at least try

I can't justify keeping the T5 and the cube, so the KPS will be returned.(anyone wants one ? )
Will try to find some time to play more with cube, and reconsider contact Lukas again asking for the hybrid....will see



Mar 25, 2017 at 05:10 PM
kdphotography
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


If weight is not an issue---I'd keep the Cube. P0 won't have the stability or capacity of the Cube. The T5 seems to have more demand than supply, so I bet you will be able to resell easily.

Once you've gone Cube....

ken



Mar 25, 2017 at 08:00 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


...resistance is futile.


Mar 25, 2017 at 11:41 PM
Bacalhau
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


kdphotography wrote:
If weight is not an issue---I'd keep the Cube. P0 won't have the stability or capacity of the Cube. The T5 seems to have more demand than supply, so I bet you will be able to resell easily.

Once you've gone Cube....

ken



...I know.. I know...you can't ballhead anymore

the T5 stilll is within the returning window - sure, I will have the return shipping cost.
But, really I only used twice outside and was super-cautious - can't tell it was used
The p0 might out take the T5 as the price range is very close and A-S might be able to handle demand better



Mar 26, 2017 at 01:30 AM
hiepphotog
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Bacalhau wrote:
...I know.. I know...you can't ballhead anymore

the T5 stilll is within the returning window - sure, I will have the return shipping cost.
But, really I only used twice outside and was super-cautious - can't tell it was used
The p0 might out take the T5 as the price range is very close and A-S might be able to handle demand better


The gear action alone on the T5 is big minus for me. You definitely have to try the goniometer gear action to appreciate it. In the end, we're trying to find a good alternative to the Cube in term of size and weight. The added ball hybrid is just icing on the cake.



Mar 26, 2017 at 09:13 PM
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